18
Aug
10

Shunkaashuutou, Ms. Puukangas and influences

Oh yes, my lovelies, it’s our special friend Elli Puukangas at it again.

Or to be honest, this should be “At it for the first time” as this is apparently her oldest published work, which I should have dissected years ago,  but I was not able to get my grubby hands on it at the time.

Totally not Ginga Nagareboshi Gin

Phew.. so after not being able to kill myself despite all my effort (oh the effort..) I seem unable to not update my blog. Besides I’ve been having these angry and impatient e-mails and comments.. thanks guys, you have given me the love my mom never gave to me :’| snivel..

So. Long, long ago, when Vartijat was only a mere script rejected by all capable artists (capable to run away and hide, that is) Elli was drawing Shunkaashuutou, and when she published it and won some colouring contest which Tammi cleverly put up to lure unsuspecting victims to draw some precious money making finnmanga for them. She “got” the job. But really Shunkaashuutou was what caught the attention of the publishers. Elli was able to do manga-like comic and hundreds of pages of it. Perfect victim. The horror had begun.

So what is it that caught the eyes of publishers so well?

Dog pecks.

Hundreds of them.

They even show trough thick fur! I’ve heard about giant eyes that show trough multi-coloured hair but this right here is ridicilous! Screw the anime eyes and magically transparent hair we got some doggy moobs here, people! Doggy moobs!

This is honestly The Ultimate Ginga Fantard Test. If you see someone who draws dogs with huge manboobs, that dude is a Ginga fan. I should know this, I used to draw like that when I was like.. nine and Ginga was the most awesome thing since Turtles and Swamp Thing. There’s also more signs to look for when determining how fantardish and affected by this style someone is and for our luck.. this comic has ALL the signs! Let’s educate!

Body type with curled up tail and pointy ears

Those goddamn expressions and WHY ARE THEIR MOUTHS ALWAYS OPEN?!

And my personal favourite.. tree-jumping dogs

She even uses the exact same phrases they use in the show! I remember this line

If someone could please tell me what episode it was on I would be grateful. I remembered it was on the episodes where the pack arrives to the homelands of Iga and Koga dogs, but I watched all those episodes, didn’t find it and wasted some precious time.

I also loled when I noticed the main character gets very similar scars to the main character of Ginga Nagareboshi Gin

As you can probably see, I’m a Gin fantard, too. I fucking love that show. To be honest,  I feel like it is the only dog comic/show which was actually good. I have honestly waited all my life to see another dog story like this one and re-watching these episodes make me feel sad because I know I will never see anything that good again. It’s like wathcing Monty Pyton and then trying to laugh at other jokes, it’s just not the same, nothing will top that genious. So yes, I do understand why some people are so influenced by this. In my opinion, the only movies or books which had been able to rise to the same level as Ginga, are Watership Down (the first book I cried for like a little, frilly-pantied fag) and Happy Feet. They don’t even have any dogs in them!

Every kid who tries to copy Balto, Ginga or Lion King lies flat like Ben squashed by a rock, like Steele falling off from a cliff, or Timon sat on by Pumba and I think it’s incredibly weird. Let me tell you why by making a point.

When Simba’s father dies, when the penguins all dance together in a group scene that rivals LOTR, when there’s a death of a comrade in Ginga and.. goddammit this scene from Watership Down!

I don’t know about you, but I’m in chills and goosebumps and on the verge of tears.. even that I know he will be fine! And the only thing keeping me from bawling like an infant with a wet diaper is that I’ve already done it about fifty times during the time frame of what.. fifteen years?! And I know this to be the case of any influenced artist. They fucking love their influence and even after years and eras they still feel the same attachement and could drive their fuel and inspiration from these movies and books forever.

So how come they end up making such shit!? I mean.. goddammit if I see one more fucking comic with Dogs vs Cats theme I will go insane. There’s one comic which shows perfectly the influence of Lion King and Balto together and I’m sure most of you have already quessed what I’m talking about.

The fucking Blackblood Alliance – epitome of all Balto and TLK comics that ever existed. Everything looks like Balto and everything sounds like Lion King, it even has the Cats vs Dogs theme which TLK started*

It does what every other hugely influenced comic does, it relies entirely of clichés, character stereotypes, mumbo jumbo magic/beliefs which don’t bring anything to the story and it starts by assuming we will immediately side with the “good guys” without telling us anything about them. Or telling us only that they are peaceful and persecuted, thinking it will be eough to make us decide that we care about the characters when they die on the first fucking scene.

I think it does actually work sometimes, but you know why it works? Because the audience has seen the same movies or read the same books that the artist was influenced by, so they have a ready consensus or a ready audience who are drawn to the comic for it’s similar story, similar style or other superficial similarities. This of course falls flat when the general audience is found and the ones who actually want more than mental masturbation over the artist’s muses are lured in. Unfortunately by this point it’s too late as the fan-audience has already bloated the artists ego and no matter how much talent they have, they cannot escape from their influences to become something greater.

This comic has already been torn to shreds by other snarkers and critics a million times so I won’t go into excessive detail. If you want to read more snark about BBA you can read it here: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Kay_Fedewa even that I really don’t agree with everything in that article, it is funny, especially the parody comic with renewed dialogue. Though it is funny only after you read the whole original story first.

So, artists cannot become anything greater than copycats unless they are able to take off their blindfolds and surpass their “masters”.

Shunkaashuutou is actually so unoriginal that it rips off stuff without probably even meaning to do so, but the effect of Naruto is especially noticable.. besides Ginga, of course.

Oh, there’s some Keyblade and WoW  in there, too. All of those are not rips imho, but just screamingly generic.

Now this would not be so bad if she had grown out of these already, but she has not. I’ve seen some not-great ginga ripping artists overcome their idols and start researching on anatomy, wildlife and colour theory (for example DA artists like Yoruko, even that she seems to only be able to draw side profiles, Sashatiainen even that everyone she draws is so angry and IsisMasshiro.. lol look up “Battoga Fail”) but nowadays Elli.. or Erwil as the DAtards know her, has been doing more comics on her free and not so free time. One of them I absolutely loathe because.. well, just look at it!

COLOR THEORY! FOR GOD’S SAKE THINK OF THE POOR COLOR THEORY! I promise to think of my poor capslock when people stop doing this kind of horrors to the poor, poor color theory. What has she ever done to you?! Huh?! HUH?! This comic also was nearly impossible to follow and.. ugh. Just a mess. Elli doesn’t seem to have enough patience or interest to complete one whole story, even that she clearly loves her characters and can’t stop telling stories about them. All of her comics what I have showcased here actually have the same main characters, but in vastly different settings.

Shunka is her Most Precious story at the moment, and it is apparently a vastly bettered Shunkashuutou. It starts out just like any other wolfdogcomic

Dogs are fighting cats and you are just brought into the middle of the situation and you should immediately root for the wolves. Goddammit. If someone would make a comic about bland gray sabre tooth cats with mange who kill off colourful and dumb wolves, I would pay 100 euros for one copy of it, just out of spite. The story has to be compelling so that the sabre tooths actually have a reason to kill the wolves and art up to the quality of passable but.. you get my point. I would pay for that.

Here’s the recipe for the ultimate dog comic: It starts with a fight, then someone important dies and one dog has to tell the alpha about the losses but the alpha is way too elegant and noble to be angry, then they go in search for the ultimate warrior who is too awesome for his own good and everyone persecutes him because he’s too pretty and powerful 😥 Then they journey trough massloads of ridicilously fast changing enviroment – they walk trough desert to rainforest (with dragons!) to mountains to snowfields to a pretty forest where everyone has the final battle. Oh, and everyone must be super-random and silly. And this comic would never get completed. It’s visual image should be like this:

But after a clumsy start this comic is not actually that bad. Elli has progressed immensely since Shunkaashuutou and oh god Vartijat. This time the characters are much less cookie-cutter and she seems to have actual story going on. Even Shunkaashuutou in it’s lengthyness (about 100 pages? 130??) was just a collaboration of nonsensical comics which had the same characters but didn’t seem to connect to eachother very well or at all. But now I was actually so into the fight scenes of Shunka that I couldn’t go to the loo untill I had read how the battle enfolds. And damn, just check out this scene!

Those buildings are fucking great! That old guy has a great expression! I never would’ve expected to see this great scenery after what was in Vartijat. I’m starting to get confident that it was the project of Vartijat which killed every ounce of Elli’s creative forces. When she’s doing something she loves to do, it looks good. But I also suspect she relied heavily on references on this page – which is good and I hope she keeps it up in regards of animal anatomy.

But not trough these tutorials..

http://erwil.deviantart.com/art/Canine-Teeth-Tutorial-1-43139768

http://erwil.deviantart.com/gallery/#/dppr04

EDIT// Baaawwwwwwwwleeeeteed

Backup files:

That’s absolutely.. wha.. you should not be giving out advice on this!! Oh god my pet peeve – bad tutorials! Lemme fix a few things..

I know in Ginga and Disney movies they bring out the impression of snarly expression by drawing lumps and bumps, but that’s not how it works in real life! This is prime example of what happens when you learn your anatomy from cartoons. Cartoon taxonomists.. pshah! What next? Cartoon physicist? “Hey, let’s give this rabbit an anvil, it should give us enough momentum to investigate the Higgs particle!” But on Elli’s defense.. these tutorials are rather old.

The characters and story still feel empty and the influence of Naruto is overpowering the influence of Ginga, but it is very apparent that she has matured as a person as well as an artist. This is not bad. She also seems to have become very.. self-aware.

Aerodynamics haha! Great!

But this was absolutely the best part for me:

This expression says so much! Anger, confusion, fear, alertness. Absolutely great. She has gone far from those canned, basic anime expressions, these start to look like living beings and not puppets that get smilies drawn on them.

Also, while browsing Erwil’s gallery today I wondered for the longest time why she has disabled commenting.

Oh my~ I know I’m scary and all but blocking me when I have never commented or even watched her? I.. am so flattered. But seriously now folks,  I am rather nice at the DA because I’m not able to pull off my gimmick when doing something as social as Deviantart’s system is. This tickles me pink.

Also, I got this peculiar link from one generous commentor not long ago:

For you non-finns: Sangatsu Manga is searching for a new artist for the Vartijat-comic. I have no idea why the fuck are they still trying to revive that piece of scrap paper, if I were them, I would start a whole new comic project or at least re-write that comic and start over. So they will change the comic’s style for the third time?? Unbelievable! I hope they have learned something from working with poor Elli. She’s doing so much better without this project.

So? Who wants to sell their soul for Sangatsu Manga? Maybe I should apply for shits and giggles? Nevertheless, this will be very interesting no matter what the outcome. I will wait with great interest but no anticipation.

I’d also like to give some advice.. Take an experienced artist! Or if the artist is young, give them more time! See what Elli could do when she had some time? It’s much better! I’m tempted to even say it is even marvelous! Manga as a style has not integrated to our comic culture yet. American style and French style has already integrated so that this generation right now can do really good comics with it, take for example Sarasvatin Hiekkaa (french style) or Saniaislehdon Salaisuudet (imo american style). To “integrate” manga style, you will need a big group of people who have assistants and talent. This is not easy and fast money, this is evolving, this takes time and I hope there will be chanses for the artists to do just this.

To wrap this up..

We have a sort of consensus, a memepool of ideas, comics, movies and books which we are supposed to be influenced by! But the meaning of this influencing is to enrich the memepool with even better stories, think of it as an evolution of culture or ideas. I don’t suggest there’s some sort of Ultimate Story which we will achieve at some point, I’m saying that the memepool is alive as long as we make good, original stories and continuosly surpass our influences so that our culture and it’s stories become something greater, something to be remembered and re-told for centuries.

Sources:

http://www.theblackbloodalliance.com/

http://www.fruitless.eu/manga/shunkashuutou/shunkashuutou.html

http://erwil.deviantart.com/

http://www.sangatsumanga.fi/uutiset/37

Thanks:

Miisa for all your trouble and anime expertism.

Also thank you, who is not amused, you know who you are. I am so sorry ❤

Notes:

*Even that I said TLK started the Dogs vs Cats trend as we know it, most people fail to realise that hyenas are actually not related to dogs more than cats are related to bears, but hyenas looking like dogs in the movies was enough to start this. They also acted exactly like dogs do in Disney movies. Hyenas are their own order, hyaenidae which is much closer to civets than anything else, but if we would have to choose, they would be much closer to felidae than canidae.

Ps. WTF is that “like” button? Apparently even I can press it. I feel awkward now.

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86 Responses to “Shunkaashuutou, Ms. Puukangas and influences”


  1. 1 Link
    August 18, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Oh god…I’m behind a computer and even I winced hard when you pointed out all her influences she denies. Inb4 epic shitstorm. Jesus *hides*

    It’s funny you pointed out BBA, because I was thinking that when you mentioned people taking styles. I was talking with someone on Sparkle Snark (I love you hard for introducing that to me by the way <3) about how stealing styles just doesn't work. You have to study the base source properly inside out before you stylize something. It just doesn't work otherwise, I'm sick of seeing Disney and Ginga everywhere. I fucking adore Disney and I fucking adore their style, but not when it's being used elsewhere. It looks tacky, generic, and terrible. I really enjoyed Ginga lot too, but dem dog titties only work in Ginga. Eesh. (Not saying they're correct, they just kinda work in there for some reason)

    It's funny in the good page you pointed out, I'm surprised you missed the guys hairline that starts FROM HIS FUCKING EYEBROWS and the blatant Christopher Eccleston influence, haha. But I have to agree, DAT BUILDING. *hnnng*

    My friend used to be a fan of Erwil's, and they still watch her, but they often complain to me about how downhill she's gone. They also have the audacity to link me to her work sometimes (when I've said 'please stop, mien eyes,') and it still shocks me at how she's gotten worse. And of course I laugh at all the blatant rip-offs and terrible perspective/anatomy. Then I die inside when I was told these are going to be published. The I tell them to seriously fucking pack it in I have better things and they still link me. Damn them. I love 'em though haha.
    I'm certainly no master myself, but like I said before, what's published can't be un-published. I wanna improve before I work on neats of my comics.

    I just died laughing at the fact she blocked you though, how the hell did she even find you? Call the waaambulance!

    And I'm another not-amused reader. But you put up another entry so it's OK ❤

    On a side note, I was really tempted to go to Maaria's dA and tell her to take on Vartijat. But the script is still terribly, and I wouldn't wanna torture her like that, even if I do get to see her pretty drawings~

    • 2 Comic Dissector
      August 18, 2010 at 11:01 pm

      To be honest it was my friend who pointed out ALL those influences. I don’t know jack shit about anime :’D I am only the fan of Ginga, Akira (comics), Alfred J. Kwak (does this even count??) and Appleseed. Naruto, One Piece, Death Note and the likes go waaaaay over my head. I don’t know anything about them. God, I’m so out of the loop I even had to google Christopher Eccleston. And isn’t Sparklesnark just great 8D?

      I don’t think Shuka is right now really that bad. It is merely generic and heavily influenced, but I am actually expecting the story to surprise me now that the improved style has surprised me. There’s hope she will grow even more as an artist.. if she starts studying.

      I guess I’m not exactly easy to find ^^’ I’m not hiding in DA or anything. But am I really that scary? Ahaha, I should post an irl picture of myself, then I would get nothing but laughs!

      OHGODNODON’TDOIT XD I’m sure it’s awkward enough for her to be the “angel” of this blog. I really should do more Good Comic posts so that she would not be so much in the spotlight here, but people actually like Bad Comic entries more so the good ones come way too slow.

      • 3 Link
        August 18, 2010 at 11:14 pm

        I always knew of the Ginga one. Zelda and InuYasha are the other. But I only know about the InuYasha one because she made fanarts of it and then got pissy when people pointed out the similarities. I dun play WoW, or watch Naruto, and I can’t believe the BeyBlade one O:

        Same, I have to agree it’s better. It horribly inconsistent, terribly drawn, the anatomy and perspective are atrocious and there are other things wrong with it, but it’s a DEFINITE improvement on all her other stuff. Maybe she actually listened to you and started studying. (y)

        And it’s more her solo works. I headdesk when I see them. When I make a mistake I take mental notes and fix them at a later date, or re-do the piece. But she often expresses their finished and she’s totally happy with them. I wish it was easier to spot mistakes in your own work, it’d help me improve even more.

        That’s what I mean, unless she visits your blog, she couldn’t have found you as you made no contact with her. Her fans clearly don’t know about FCD otherwise you’d have a shitstorm of “BAWWW LEAVE ERWIL SAMA DESU ALONEEEE!111111”. I know of one other way, which I am VERY suspicious of, but perhaps I’ll tell you about that sometime elsewhere~ *hurrr*

        Then get the good comics out, I know you guys have them! xD
        But yeah I kinda agree. Bad entries are super funny, but the good ones are ones I can learn from a bit more. Thanks to you, I’ve learned shit about comics that would have NEVER crossed my mind.

        Now to get back to drawing this rainbow llama picture. Your entry interrupted me xD

    • 4 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 11:10 am

      WTF I meant to say I’m not exactly HARD to find, not easy. God my brain is fried!
      I mean, I have visited her page a few times while researching something so it would not be hard to see me on the visitors-list most have on their DA page.

      And I am way too tired to be hearing the word “rainbow llama” right now. No sleep in 20 hours xD

      • 5 Link
        August 19, 2010 at 1:13 pm

        xD I’m sorry, it’s on my dA now though if you want some lulz xD

        I guess, but she gets a considerable amount of traffic, so you would be wiped off pretty quickly. Maybe she caught you on there once. We’ll never know

    • August 19, 2010 at 1:46 pm

      “Maybe she caught you on there once. We’ll never know”

      Oh I think we might know. You see, the person the book was originally borrowed from got angry about the fact that it was going to be used here, and now claims that we (or I) lied to her just so we could get the book (which in fact is wrong, as originally it was borrowed so mr. Dissector could read it, and I could re-read it. After seeing again how crappy it was I wanted it to be dissected. Nor did I ever lie that it WOULDN’T be dissected.) and told that she would tell Erwil about this, and this person also knows Dissector’s DA so it’s possible she told about it too.

      • 7 Comic Dissector
        August 19, 2010 at 2:23 pm

        Why didn’t I think of that? But still, I have no idea how long I have been blocked anyway, it only now caught my eye as I read pretty much all her comics for this entry.
        No harm done and everyone’s happy 😀 ..I guess?
        Also, you should mention to that person that Shunkaashuutou is up on the web to be read for free anyway.

        But if they really did pull the drama – I am amazed either one of them really bother and actually do give a fuck :0

      • 8 Link
        August 19, 2010 at 2:25 pm

        Huh. Well that sucks. I hate people who try and backtrack and lie. It doesn’t help anyone. Doesn’t help themselves, other people involved, anything. Why don’t they just tell the truth? (yeah yeah I know, there will always be liars and people like this, I just wish they’d understand how bad it all looks)

        By the way, hello there Miss Hound 😀 I checked out your page a while back when you posted here, and I have to say, you have some magnificent works. It kinda reminds me alot of the stuff I used to draw alot when I was younger. Then it makes me wonder when I becamse such a pansy and started drawing bright pretty flowers and fairys and bloody unicorns |D

      • August 19, 2010 at 2:35 pm

        Damn, how do you reply in this site?!

        Well, can’t say I’m exactly happy about her going around playing martyre and thinking up lies in her paranoid head so that she could make me the bad guy (I mean, MORE of the bad guy I already am). But then again… I should have expected that, yup.

        “Also, you should mention to that person that Shunkaashuutou is up on the web to be read for free anyway”
        Huh? The new one is but the old isn’t, at least fully.

      • 10 Comic Dissector
        August 19, 2010 at 2:56 pm

        wtf, oh man you’re right, they were just previews of some sort.

        ..I really should go and get some sleep

  2. 11 muura
    August 18, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    I WAS SO HAPPY TO SEE YOUR POST EEEEEEE TREATS BEFORE GOING TO SLEEP <3<3

  3. August 18, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Well, to be more cruel about Elli’s new project…anyone can draw, but writing good stuff and drawing that for a comic, is complete different thing. We see that so well how much there’s Hugleikur Dagsson’s and Max Cannon’s ripoffs being just plain offensive since they have no fucking clue about the fact it needs more to be a freaking comic creator than drawing crappy pictures. And for this Shunka…world just doesn’t need another crappy story about three-eyed cat going rabies or wolf having freaking wings.
    Of course, I’m not that sort of type, who enjoys the dog’s man boobs-stuff, or any of that, but the serious “we don’t need to fucking write anything” is general problem with web comics in international level, yet also in _printed_ Finnish comics. I do agree that people shouldn’t think about doing that master piece of a life time, but think about it enough much rather than ending up doing same freaking story with different clothes on.
    Generally seeing how Finnish comics are developing, I think it’s disturbing how there’s also huge bunch of DArtist fumed people, who do take the short cut like Elli still does: rather learning simplifying yourself and taking the easy road like so many real mangakas, copying some crappy styles and not learning to themselves, how and why to simplify something the way they do. No wonder how you can categorizes this kind of people with three blocks; Muura-wannabes, way too generic animupeople and of course, man boob dogs-people.

    • 14 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 11:18 am

      I cannot stress enough for people to make a good story. I ramble allot about anatomy, but story is honestly the most important aspect. If the art is beautiful but the story is shit, no one will want to re-tell it, but even if the art is bad but the story is compelling and well thought out.. it’s a sucess.

      I would like to think that our problem is that these people who have picked up manga-influence are still too young, but in reality most are in their early 20’s which is way too young to be copying others and making naive stories. I feel like there’s a complete lack of ambition.

  4. August 19, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Wow, I have so much to say about this topic. But I try to keep it short.

    Ginga style is a perfect example to show how things can go wrong if you never do research. For example the dog moobs.. If you have read Ginga Nagareboshi Gin volume 1, you can see that originally those “moobs” were supposed to resemble the shape of fur that dogs have on their chest (A good photo showing the shape: http://www.free-extras.com/images/miniature_schnauzer-12774.htm ). When the comic went on, somehow that shape turned out to resemble muscles. Later fan-artists came, though that those were muscles, started to draw them and created.. “moobs”.

    This is why you should never copy other person’s style, especially if you have no idea why the original artist drew that way in the first place. That’s why I find it very hard to watch any Ginga fan-art/copied styles because most of artists don’t even understand what they are drawing. They draw huge muscles on their dogs chest because the author of Ginga did so. And they never question why, even if they know that those look quite ridiculous..

    But enough of Ginga.

    I still find it incredible that people can’t come up stories that have other animals than wolves or big cats. Sure, if you like dogs and you want to make a story about dogs, go ahead, but you have to work pretty damn hard to make it very good and interesting. Unfortunately people don’t try to create original story, they just add colours and strange marks on the characters. I still don’t understand how that makes the story any interesting. And why there’s so much magic in these comics?

    I think that sometimes people forget that just because you like dogs, it doesn’t mean that your story has to be about them. Sometimes a different animal species can serve your story even better than ordinary cats and dogs. I mean, why keep using the same animals over and over again? The world is full of strange and wonderful animals. Parrots, goats, slow lorises, kangaroos, armadillos.. Heck, if the characters of Shunka were armadillos instead of dogs, that comic would be awesome. Okay, it would more weird than awesome but.. think about it. Armadillos that can transform to humans, fly and shoot beams out of their mouths. Wow.

    I’m also wondering why many dog/wolf comics have these very epic and huge stories. Not everything has to be about saving the pack, the world or unverse. Stories can be small, too.

    I don’t think that I achieved anything after writing this.

    • 16 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 11:32 am

      Granted, dogs would have that kind of muscle if they were muscular enough. Like our Wendy the whippet here: http://www.indiaonrent.com/forwards/v/very-muscular-dog/res/9p1b_h.jpg
      But again, if you don’t study the subject and how the muscles attach or even look at a picture of a real dog, it’s going to look stupid and way too excessive. Even that whippet who suffers from myostatin problems doesn’t have the kind of “pecks” Ginga dogs have. They are by default wrong and someone copying it will get them even more wrong untill all we have is just a random lump of dog muscles.

      I think the magic comes from the need for something “epic” for the stories. They cannot write a good story so they compensate with making everything epic, mystic and magical (but even this fails because there has to be some kind of explanation for this too. Why do they have it? How? When? One page full of text boxes is not proper storytelling!) This is also why their characters have so much trinkets and markings – to make up for the unoriginality, to compensate for the lack of substance. So we have a magical mess of sparkledogs.

      Totally with you on armadillos! Or even better! Tamanduas! Those guys know kung fu, you know.
      But really, the best animal stories I have read or seen have been with animals I never expected to be written so epicly about. Like the rabbits of Watership Down or heck, even Babe the piglet. Some things are just really over-romanticised and don’t need any more attention.
      The problem really lies with the epicness. If people stopped relying solely on the battles, blood, drama and conflict which envelopes the whole world of their stories we would for once see something different and maybe even better with real substance and real stories. If I see a story about “the chosen one” one more time..

      • August 21, 2010 at 7:35 am

        That’s one badass dog and yet at the same time very sad looking.

        Hmm.. That “magical stuff” actually makes now sence after reading your comment about it. I find it unbelievable that someone would actually put magic all over the comic just to hide the weak story, because I would never do something like that. Probably because I have never been so fond of magic. Magic tricks, sure, but all that sparkly magical mumbo-jumbo goes way over my head.

        Don’t talk about “the chosen one” stories. I have seen so many animal comics that have that storyline. Everytime when I see one of those I keep wondering myself are those authors really serious about this. There’s so frickin’ many comics like that! If you really want to make a animal comic with “chosen one” concept, you better make parody of it. I could at least accept that.

        I also noticed that you put me on your watch list on DA. Dude, you didn’t have to. : D But thanks anyway!

    • 18 Comic Dissector
      August 21, 2010 at 9:58 am

      Yeah, poor little “bully” The things people do to get “the perfect dog” never ceases to amaze me.

      Even if magic is not explained, it’s possible to have the flow to it by even explaining some of the mechanics, like in Harry Potter. Of course it is something that most think cannot be explained so it has this special status as The Thing You Can Throw Around And Say Anything About. Augh.
      But yeah, epicness and magic are overdone so much as people tend to hide their lame stories with them.

      And don’t get me started on the movies with the white, teenage boy who has no character and is The Chosen One. It is the marketer’s favourite type because so many can relate to it.
      People have a strange fixation for Chosen Ones.

      Dude, np :0

      • 19 WolfPearl
        August 21, 2010 at 10:06 am

        I’m allergic to Chosen Ones. And Prophesies. They usually tend to enjoy each others’ company for some reason.

  5. 20 Link
    August 19, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Oh god, I have to point out here something about Elli using the 3 eyed cats/may tailed animals etc to clear something up with people mentioning it.

    She’s using the Legend of the Bijuu’s, which is fine, I used it. It’s most commonly known in Naruto, so the whole 3 eyed-2-tailed cats etc aren’t actually hers, she’s just being faithful.

    HOWEVER, I recently found out this Legend was actually a fake. It was written by some Narutard, claiming they had translated old books and shit, they basically twisted a fuckload of old Chinese/Japanese Legends and made everyone believe the Bijuu’s were an Ancient thing that had existed for thousands of years.

    Only recently did someone clear this up, but there are still artists making money off this and they don’t know it isn’t real. Basically the reason I abandoned the Legend is simple- copyright infringement. She’s bordering some scary stuff if she keeps all that crap in there. I’m pretty sure she still thinks it’s legit though.

    I’d inform her about it myself, because no-one wants to sit in court and deal with that shit, but she’d probably take it as an attack and claim I made it up so she doesn’t use the Legend I’m using or something. *sigh*

    • 21 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 2:32 pm

      Well, the comic is really so influenced and such a mess that in that case at least four companies should sue her. I don’t think anyone bothers to do so, I mean even Nick Simmons didn’t get sued for that INSANE amount of stealing.

      BUT!

      His comics were pulled off the market and he got shunned pretty hard.
      My biggest concern is the damage she’s doing to herself with this sort of ripping and copying, she’s never going to surpass her idols or “integrate” anime style unless she works on it.

      But damn, that was an interesting tidbit of info. Is this perhaps related to that lie Neil Gaiman used to spread? He made a comic about japanese myths and he listed even the books he used as source (which did not exist) and scientists searched for them for years.
      Or maybe this is just a rumor. I never liked Neil Gaiman much so I don’t bother researching more.. at least not now that my 26:th hour of no sleep is creeping on.

  6. 23 Link
    August 19, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Grr, I hate this comment offset system. I’ll reply here to your reply to Hound.

    She’s blocked me now too, I won’t lie, I actually burst out laughing. She sees us a threat, why?! We aren’t going to harm her, we aren’t going to troll her, attack her or whatever. She must have seen I get linked to her often and thought I’d say something. I’m not, I have no interest.
    She also calls us trolls, which is brilliant, I’d like to say “she knows we aren’t, she’s just scared and can’t stand we’re not doing actually anything wrong”. But I’ve seen her say retarded things like “I was trolling through my gallery” so she obviously doesn’t know what I troll is.
    She also hid the first comment, linking to FCD, meaning she proved what I said ages ago, she’ll avoid making this place public at any costs because of how bad her earlier dissected stuff is.

    I gave her a little too much credit, she still has an ego that could soak up the oil spill. I would much sooner listen to someone I don’t like giving me genuine advice and improve, rather than ignoring them just because it’s a certain person, and be bad for longer.

    Btw you have a REALLY weird effect on me Erkki. I’m going through older drawings and correcting them now, aswell as obsessively doing study drawings/concepts as we speak e_o

    • 24 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 3:16 pm

      There has been links to my blog on her page o_O? Oh my. Granted, my tone here is ridden with gimmick angryness and pessimism, the jokes are probably hard to take all right but the redlines and other pictures speak for themselves and I hope artists will be able to get something out of them.

      Yesss >8D research.. research!

      • 25 Link
        August 19, 2010 at 3:20 pm

        http://comments.deviantart.com/4/1100374/1624002064
        See for yourself, she wouldn’t have hidden it unless it harmed her image in some way.

        Like I said before, this blog really helps me evolve in the comic side of things, it’s half the reason I adore this place. And the same amount of sarcasm etc is applied to YOU aswell by yourself deliberately in every entry, it’s obvious it’s not vendetta against anyone snarked here, you’re just making learning fun. YEAH FUN LEARNING >8D

        TOTTARY. I took a shit load of angle pics with my elf ears on to help me draw them consistently (that’s something she needs to fucking work on, chameleon elf ears that are always flat and forward-facing no matter what angle) she can use my tut if she wants to, I wouldn’t care, it’s there to help xD

      • 26 Comic Dissector
        August 19, 2010 at 3:35 pm

        Sigh.. here we go again. When Miisa borrowed that book and scanned it for me, she said her friend is angry at her for it so I suggested she will ask her friend to send me an e-mail about her worries. She did, but no matter how much I pried I could not get it out of her what she wanted me to do. I sent probably over ten e-mails trying to make her happy before I even started on this entry.

        I’m kinda dissapointed..
        Also because it’s sad it is so easy to belive I would actually lie and deceive something to snark it. I’m very prone to use second-hand shoppes because they are cheaper but this is a bit of a stretch..

  7. 27 Link
    August 19, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    @Hound
    Yeah it’s kinda odd huh? Reply button disappears half the time.

    It’s perfectly understandable. The way Comic Dissector portrays you is a good one, and I don’t doubt that’s how you are. I don’t see you as a bad guy, and the only people that will in this situation are probably gonna be biased towards Erwil.

    Yeah her first one is available in a few chapters online, but not all of it.

    • August 19, 2010 at 2:53 pm

      Ha, I’m a total snarker by heart and soul and to the person that’s pretty much like a curseword 😀
      We also have some history and I have been an immature idiot more than once, but she just goes maybe bit too far on trying to stay innocent and goes with her negative feelings more than head, like with these alleged “lies”. I guess she felt she was being lied to, but I never knew I was lying, or tried to lie, so…

      • 29 Link
        August 19, 2010 at 2:58 pm

        I can agree, I don’t get involved in drama most of the time because most of the time I don’t like it. There are a few exceptions of course.
        You have history with her aswell? Pffft, I thought I was the only one xD

        If that’s how the story went then there were no lies or deceit, does she know the full story herself? If not, someone should tell her (if she’ll listen), if she does, yeah innocent act an all that. We all make mistakes, and when we do we should admit them. It does bug me a little that she tried to be all like “waa it’s not my fault waaa it’s my style!!”

    • 30 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 2:59 pm

      Yeah, sorry about the comment system sucking ass, since I changed the look of this blog it persisted having only columns of three and I cannot edit this in any way.

      I would suggest just replying to the first message as the reply button doesn’t dissapear from that, or the second column. Then the comments go very neatly.

      • 31 Link
        August 19, 2010 at 3:02 pm

        Good idea actually. There’s one comment I posted that hasn’t gone through, but when I try and post it again it’s telling me it has already been posted, even though it doesn’t show up, so I’ll put it here.

        I know, I’m just pointing out that the part about the Bijuu’s isn’t her fault, we were all deceived by the same influence :/

        Oh GAWD fucking Incarnate, I can’t believe nothing happened. Pisses me off so bad, at least it did get pulled and his reputation was slaughtered though.

        See for yourself, I don’t fully know
        Here’s the original where all the artists got their info: http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=57918

        Here’s the one I was told about dis-proving it: http://community.livejournal.com/yokaimonsters/57605.html

      • 32 Link
        August 19, 2010 at 3:03 pm

        Good idea. I also keep trying to post one comment that isn’t going through. RRRAAAGEE.

        Is this your doing? >8I

      • 33 Comic Dissector
        August 19, 2010 at 3:20 pm

        The comment got stuck into the spam-side because it had links in it, sorry xD

    • August 19, 2010 at 3:07 pm

      Ha, naw I don’t have history with Erwil (except that the original shunkashuutou confused me a lot some years ago) but with the person who borrowed the comic (she had bought it when we were at the same school) and who told Erwil about this.

      • 35 Link
        August 19, 2010 at 3:10 pm

        Ahh. I read it (well, I say read, I looked at all the pages online years ago) and found it moderately interesting (maybe because there wasn’t any confusing text/story and I got to make up my own words), but I got really put off when I saw her using the Kyuubi from Naruto in it. Then I watched Ginga a while later and thought “holy fuck, rip-off city” after seeing how much she had taken from it. Then I started studying canine anatomy myself properly and was all like “Fuck this shit.”

  8. 36 Unikeko
    August 19, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Oh G update! You can’t imagine my hollow days of coming to check this couple of times while wishing that SOMETHING updates. I let out a short hamster squeel.

    And God do I hate muscle-dogs… Even more than sparkledogs. It’s just… no. And I find those canine-teeth-tutorials so sad, ’cause lot of people actually compliment how HELPFUL they are. They are actually taking reference of those tutorials! Oh God NO. I hate her muzzles to begin with and then she teaches other people to do same.
    I’m ever so glad that I learned about Ginga A LOT later, my mom basically spend my childhood showing me moomins. Now I draw adorable fat, big eyed things, yet can’t draw a dog. It all goes around!

    Is it bad that I feel like trying to publish my comic just that there’d be chance that someone would critique it? I feel nervous that people are so afraid of saying anything bad about it, ’cause I don’t know if my storytelling is confusing if no-one tells me that it is so. D:
    (Also, I feel like contacting Sangatsu… Sweet money by drawing trash, that sounds fun…)

    But well I’m still glad that Elli’s improving in something. She should just concentrate drawing humans and buildings and leave those poor dogs and canines alone. I like her cats lot better.

    • 37 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 3:12 pm

      I have allot of catching up to do.. I’m behind my schedule by months lol.

      Nothing wrong with Moomins. Moomins are fucking great, especially the original comics. I have squealed and awwed like that only when reading Yotsuba or those comic strips. And I actually learned how to draw realistic blushing trough the Moomin series 😀
      Hmm.. I should do a whole entry which dissects bad tutorials, actually.. like I’m not already behing in schedule! hah!

      I can critique it even without it being published 8D tee hee ..but yeah, the bigger the audience the better chanse you have for being able to get critique.
      ..and dooooo eeeeet
      ..contact them
      ..even out of spite or for the lulz
      But prepare to work your ass off for a pay that hardly pays your rent. Depending on your rent, of course.

      And to be honest Elli’s progress surprised me too, and positively for once!

      • August 19, 2010 at 3:36 pm

        Yeah I noticed. D: Dissect more it’s the salt of our veinss! Also, it teaches a lot.

        Sadly enough I haven’t really introducted myself to original Moomins, I should get my lazy ass to do that one day. And Youtsuba’s totally great! I wish I could make things that random and funny *Sheds a tear to wishing star* (Nearly wrote fishing)
        And you still have that dissection of badly drawn boobs to do – maaan you have a lot to do.

        Haha, I’d totally make and love you do it, but I’m in middle of re-drawing the beginning and the comics is still kinda in baby-steps (shush, 130 pages is baby-steps for a comic), so I think it’s currently more confusing that anything. I’ll still throw a website link where you can dig it out, so if you want you can check and make your eyes bleed. I’m pretty sure you’ll do that. The bleeding I mean.

        Kela pays my rent mostly since I’m a student! So like 50 euros in a month would probably pay my rent completely, depending of how much Kela is going to give me some sweet moneyz… But hey it’s really tempting, I mean Vartijat sucks pretty much and I haven’t even READ the darn thing (expect your dissections), but it’d be a good way to get your name known.

        It’s nice to see artists growing. *Nods* I did improvement meme once. I noticed I had hardly grown at all in my style in few last years. :C

    • 39 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 4:01 pm

      Haha, yeah I know what you mean. I have scripts for 600 pages or 400 pages usually (so they can dust and be re-drawn proably forever.. ehh.. procastinating) But yes, do give me the link! ..and dammit why are everyone demanding that tittypost xD

      Well, if you think you got the style they want and the patience of a saint – go for it? But I’m warning you..

      If you haven’t improved, at least you can see where you haven’t improved and start working on it.

      • August 19, 2010 at 4:17 pm

        I have the whole script in my mind – that’s why it’s so cluttered, I’m terrible at writing things down. I have everything set up and just try to take my characters from point A to point B. Writing… not really my cup o’ sake, apparently. Another thing I should practice into! And I sneakily enugh put the link in my name, so that no-one will ever notice it.
        ’cause we want to know what we do wrong when we draw boobs! 😀 For your information, if I don’t know how to draw ’em, I still won’t go in front of mirror. It’s… We don’t think like that XD

        I’ll think about it… I’ll think about it. *Music of doom*

        That’s true :’D I want to be able to draw more realistic or not-so-anime to begin with, but it’s those things that you just have to work your ass off to achieve.

      • 41 Comic Dissector
        August 19, 2010 at 4:37 pm

        I suggest writing the whole thing down as a script, and then starting to improve it plot-wise. Having it collect dust for a while is also a good way to see the mistakes in it yourself. If the idea is good still after a few months or maybe even a year, it probably passes. And you can start your realism from your favourite subject. When you master it, you can use that skill to master the other objects you want to draw realistically.

        Whaa? You don’t o_o but.. but.. I always do that when I need to draw..
        but.

      • August 19, 2010 at 4:49 pm

        I hope the comment shows up right, that ninja-reply button…

        I probably should! But everytime I think about writing a script in my mind comes lessons from our dramaturgy (…is it even that in english? Dramaturgia…) where our scripts had to be written in format of
        EX. PARK
        Character A walks down the path and meets Character B and they sit together on bench.
        A: Nice day eh?
        B shifts his pose a little and lift his face to sky.
        B: Eh, birds poo on my head at days like these.
        – And so on, I totally loathed doing those. They are necessary in movies and such but it made me just feel so silly. :< But I should start to like scripting. It'd help.

        About realism is that I think more of feeling that I won't succeed in anything if I don't learn it and no-one'll like my animu style, even though I'm more comfortable drawing with that. :'D

        I know it's horrible truth, I even have a full-body mirror and I use it only to check my clothes! D: But after our 3D-classes I did spend good amount in front of it looking how chest-muscles connect in arm. I should do it more often.

      • 43 Comic Dissector
        August 19, 2010 at 5:25 pm

        Yeah, that button is a pain, don’t let it escape! lol

        Augh, every time I speak of scripts I forget to add that I mean comic scripts – really fast sketches which show maybe the dialogue, frames and such. Like, doing a whole comic with stick figures kind of deal. Whenever I need to script something short (30-50 pages) I separate a few A4’s to nine squares and draw a mini-sized comic script on it. Find your own way.
        Yeah it’s dramaturgy (or at least I’ve used that.. ehh) and it’s very helpful when it’s about the angles and story. Many people would need to take a course..

        And even that I have bashed finnmanga here allot.. you should stick with what you like to do BUT study other things as well to better your own zone.

      • August 19, 2010 at 5:58 pm

        Haha don’t worry, I know you didn’t mean it like that, but it’s the only thing that pops in my mind every time a script is mentioned, and to be honest I haven’t been taught any other script (even though I know they can be just… written. Like a book!) Well, I do sketch the pages on papers first, so if I notice that something doesn’t work I can still change it quite easily. And with my weekly update-basis I have a lot of time to murf around those sketches. :3 And I tought I was hard-core when I split A4 in 4 panels and drew the pages on those… *Sheds a single tear* but as my defence I also include text-bubbles in them.

        Yeah, I should try to do that :’D Learning stuff outside my style I mean.

  9. 45 Link
    August 19, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Eh you tried. When there’s 2 sides to a story like this there’s gonna be alot of doubt. I believe you and Miisa more, because you guys have never lied to me or done me wrong. Erwil’s fans are gonna believe her more because they, you know, like her an’ all that.

    But Erwil has a huge history of lying, backstabbing, and hypocrisy. Even if I didn’t know you guys, or even hated you, chances are I’d believe you more, after all I’ve witnessed first hand many times the shit she comes out with.

    • 46 Comic Dissector
      August 19, 2010 at 4:14 pm

      I cannot make any judgement of Elli’s character (never seen her, never talked to her, never nothing) or even to the one who lied about Miisa, and pretty much lied about me too. I doubt anyone has any malicious intent here at all, and things would have been settled with a very simple conversation, but that cannot be had now, eh ^^’?
      Oh well, I think everyone’s happy right now after all.

      It’s kinda hard to be respectful with this blog, after all. I never take contact with any of the artists I dissect here so I would not look like I was linking my blog to them and being an ass, trying to stir up drama, but I dunno. Maybe I should just start linking everyone and acknowledging them?

      • 47 Link
        August 19, 2010 at 4:22 pm

        Mmm. It’s stupid that it could have been talked out yet it wasn’t. But eh, like I said, at least you put the effort in and actually tried.

        I doubt it. I can see enormous quantities of butthurt from that. And shitstorms, lots and lots of shitstorms.

        Oh, and before I forget for the millionth time.
        Inb4 Erwil’s bf comes back with another tl;dr.

      • 48 Comic Dissector
        August 19, 2010 at 4:28 pm

        Hmm, I hope not because I would have no problem talking to her.

  10. August 19, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Wow.. I feel honoured that you mentioned my (shitty) internet alias in there. Thank you! Oh, and yes.. I’m painfully aware of my tendency to go the EASY SIDE PROFILE LULZ-way when drawing dragon-y-critters. D: I shall defend myself by saying that uhh.. I’m learning slowly! I’ve properly practiced them/their anatomy and structure only for a year or so! Baw! Err, anyway, thanks for the slap in the face; it helps me get motivated. ❤ (No seriously, I'm not even being sarcastic about that. D: )

    Oh Ginga.. you wonderful thing that does terrible things to all aspiring artists' around it. I had all but forgotten the, uh, two episodes I saw of it when I was a teeny tiny kiddo until I met Sashatiainen & Whitefear (who were the ones that drove me to trying out drawing canines for the first time [back in… 2008 I think? Christmas 2008?]) at the previous school I went to. After that my view on DOG-ARTISTS MRRR was never the same anymore. *shiver* But yeah, as a kid I never felt any, erm, special "AFFINITY" for dogs. I was (/am) like.. FUCK YEAH REPTILES. (Turtles, you magnificent badly animated tv-series bastard you. Also Alfred J. Kwak & Moomins. Those were my favorites. BULLY ME ALL YOU WANT, BAW, ALFRED IS COOL!1)

    Erm. That was unnecessarily blabber-ish. All-in-all; great entry once again! I can't help but GIGGLE GIRLISHLY at the the "oops, blocked!" drawing. 8D Also, I suddenly realized who your mysterious friend is. DUN DUN DUUH.

    • 50 Comic Dissector
      August 20, 2010 at 11:53 am

      Ahaha, even when I praise someone it still comes out in a form of a slap to the face xD Sorry.

      ALFRED J. KWAK IS THE BEST THING SINCE CRACK! I re-watch the episodes religiously and it has to be The Influence in my life as an artist.
      And maybe you were a bit bad example of a die-hard Ginga fan, damnit, stop hanging out with so many gingadogpeople and confusing me! lol.. okay, my bad. I admit.
      But damn Alfred is good. I especially love the two-parter episode where Alfred and Dolf fall into that well.

      Thank you :B And I have to add – I have a couple of “mysterious friends” helping me with these entries.
      This is also the first time I have ever been blocked by anyone, and it happened without me talking to them ever.

      • August 22, 2010 at 8:34 pm

        Whoa. Sorry for the late reply! I totally got shitfaced for three days straight and was unable to use the computer properly. (In other words; I hanged out with my IRC-channel friends and played nerdy board-rpg-type-games and probably drank a minuscule amount of beverages that might have traces of some alcohol… But don’t tell anyone or I lose all my internet-cool– no wait, no such thing!)

        ANYWAYS. Haha yeah, I was pretty much joking about the whole slap-thing! No worries, I am actually honoured that you gave me such praise. 😀

        HOLY SHIT YES! Finally someone who agrees! I’ve been speculating that how much lower my IQ would be if I hadn’t watched that show as a kid. It’s awesome! (I have the whole thing saved and carefully stored on my hard drive. *cough*) It teaches you good morale and that… nazis are evil… erm. Oh, haha yeaaaah.. I’m pretty much the worst example of a die-hard Ginga fan since I do not consider myself a fan at all. :’D I can’t even remember all the characters’ names or who is whose son/uncle/father/whatever. (I’ve seen the animated show trough only once so far too… oops.) Somehow it seems I run into people IRL who are a) artists of some level and b) Ginga-fans and then befriend them. Pffrt! (Such as Sashatiainen, Whitefear and Saiccu. All went to the same school as I did. Friend-make was imminent.) I must have a status alignment which causes that…

        Heh, yeah. Exactly why it makes me so giddy. All your comments on dA have all been really polite in my ears, or rather eyes but anyway. QUICKLY! BLOCK THE DISSECTOR-MAN! THAT’LL SHOW HIM!

        Mystery friends are all fun & games!

  11. August 20, 2010 at 2:26 am

    You know what bugs me the MOST? Each dog on that cover have a different number of toes, three, four and five.

    I know artists are never great at math, but is counting really that hard?

  12. 54 Vol
    August 20, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Haha, doggie moobs! I’m still trying to figure out what exact muscles they’re supposed to be, or rather, why did Yoshihiro Takahashi draw them in the first place. Takahashi obviously knows a thing or two about dogs, yet I’ve never seen even a photograph of a dog with such… things in their chest. It just doesn’t add up. Maybe I just need to do more research.

    ANYWAY, this was a nice read once again. It got me into thinking my own influences as an artist and storyteller. I remember trying SO HARD to draw in Ginga style back when I was, um, twelve or something. I mean I really, really tried, ’cause I wanted to be one of the cool kids drawing anime. But oh god, I failed so hard I had to give up. :’D Luckily I met WolfPearl around that time and she taught me that research is cool and anatomy is awesome. Nowadays my biggest influence would probably be Sergio Leone and his westerns. God, I love those movies…

    …Not sure if this comment had a point. :< I guess it's just an elaborate way to say OMG ENJOYED READING THIS.

    • 55 Comic Dissector
      August 20, 2010 at 12:04 pm

      Well, here you have one:
      http://thepoodleanddogblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451580669e20120a60c1bac970c-500wi
      It’s a whippet, by the way. She suffers from a mutation in the myostatin gene (it is doubled) but it’s not very likely all of Ginga’s dogs would have it xD
      Oh well, I think it just made them more MANLY. Horses have those muscles pretty prominent in normal circumstances, but hey, they weight half a ton so they better have pecs.

      I read your blogpost on those westerns, and stuff and agh, I gotta leave a reply there when I have got some coffee and I don’t need to socialise anymore today.
      Wolfpearl makes me have nerdgasms. Man, I really need to annoy Wolfpearl with a dissection d_d god I’m so behind my schedule.

      I don’t mind reading ramblings, they make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Tee hee.

  13. 56 Lurker
    August 20, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    FFffffff, english words just tangle in my mouth at the moment, but I’ll try to babble something wise instead of relying in finnish so easily.

    Firstly, can I say I just lov- worship you? It’s always delightful to see new updates on your blog and the way you critique bad (and good) comics is amusing. The texts have given a lot to think/ponder about, not only paying attention how one provides experiences and stuff via comics and but also how to take the critique given towards oneself like a man… or something like that. If I ever happen to manage to draw a comic (which I actually highly doubt) I’ll give one to you so you can critique it harshly. :”D

    That Shunkaashuutou reminded me of that that I have one somewhere in my room’s closet since Tracon II, I think? The comic almost spread everywhere from its bondings already the day I bought it when I was young, dummy and interested in Ginga-styled dogs and play-by-post games. I’ve thought about throwing it into a trash can or burning it, but then actually decided to keep it as a reminder of how not to make a comic. Since then I’ve bought a few finnish comics (Vartijat vol. 1 and Oblivion High vol. 1) and just added them to the pile of the dissuasive examples.

    How interested are you in criticizing comic albums that have lots of different comics by different authors, such as Hokuto Manga and Manga Maani? I would be willing to lend or give them.

    It’s truly funny to think about the fact that I used to admire a lot people who I thought they’re good at drawing but over time I just noticed that while I was progressing in my skills, almost all those people hadn’t progressed at all. The last smidgens of my respect died when I got to know how they receive even the constructive critique and think their skills are on top of the world though they would still have so much to go through and polish their skills even better… <:"/
    But nice to see that Erwil has made some progress since Vartijat – the quality between Vartijat and https://finnishcomicsdissected.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/shunka_31_by_erwil.jpg is so clear. Never, never draw comics so sloppy as in Vartijat. It gives me nightmares. (I wonder how those japanese manga-artists can really manage all that crazy haste between deadlines, though they do have helpers with backgrounds and such…)

    AAaaaaaaaAAAaaa, BUT! I really enjoyed reading this (and of course all previous awesome updates) and I shall patiently wait for the new update.

    • 57 Comic Dissector
      August 20, 2010 at 5:26 pm

      Suahan tänne suameakin väänthää 😀 ..but it’s just nicer to the wide audience if they can understand what is being said lol

      Ahaha ^^’ well once in my life I do something someone appreciates!
      The tone in here is ridden with crude humor, but it’s good so many still can see the critique and help underneath the swearing and “That looks like a shit took a shit DERP!”
      I don’t really care if someone just doodles sparkledogs and drives a bus as their job, but when one starts to consider art as their job.. they need to start being critical and take critique like a MAYN! And I will remember your promise. Njeh.

      Ohhh! Damn! I forgot to mention that Elli actually did the cutting and binding of the comics all by herself! It is a monumental task and she actually did it very well for a beginner. She put so much effort in this that it amazes me. This shows she has the energy somewhere, she just needs to channel it right, and I see she has started to do it.
      And shitty comics also provide us something – atrocity tourism, a learning experience and a bad example 🙂 It is really under-appreciated value probably because no one in this country is willing to critique with their own face (ohhh burrrn, me!)

      I think I used to admire Jhonen Vasquez back in the days.. hrm. But he’s not that bad at all. Growing out of admiration because of relavation and progress in own skills is pretty admirable.
      Japanese artists do so well so fast because their teams are huge and their comic industry is really an industry, it’s huge. Also because of this they have also huge competition on the markets. The japanese underground comics are EXACTLY like finnish underground comics.
      But nothing really forces finnish artists to not build teams. We already have teams like, writer + artist (like in Vartijat. They also had assistants in the toning and inking but only after they realised the deadline was inhumane for one young person) or artist + colourist. Nothing keeps us from forming proper mangaka-teams. Just go for it!
      But of course the issue of money becomes more complicated.

      But yeah, thank you! ..and sorry you have to wait so patiently.. ahaha D:
      I honestly am so behing schedule that I probably HAVE to post again this month. Let’s just hope life gives me time to do so.

  14. August 20, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Eeeeeee! A new entry! 8D
    You know, ever since I found out about this blog (when you first threw that note at me and asked if you could probably dissect my comic) I’ve been circling around at least once a day to check for new stuff. Now that there is, I can go squee. (No-life here.)

    You have not seem the horrors of dog-boobs untill you have seen a dog with a SIXPACK on it’s neck. I have been into canine forum RPGs when I was younger, and believe me, that’s a source of some scaaaary stuff. But I think I’ve finally pinpointed what those chest-balls originally were ment to portray. There is this here little tutorial: http://nekonotaishou.deviantart.com/art/Ginga-Tutorial-Final-version-145130967?q=gallery%3Acaninecomics%2F25324872&qo=2
    Sad as it might be, teaching how to copy Takahashi’s “style”, but it has some photo references, with the doggie-boobs having some photographic explanation. And it does make some sense, that the “boobies” are the shoulders of the dog. And judging by how the fore limbs of ginga-dogs seem to otherwise only exist from elbow down, the additional bones the shoulder explanation offers is pretty necessary. Hey, it makes sense to me! That’s the only way they make sense to me…

    Oh, by the way, before I forget, did you get the comic I sent you?I have lost stuff in the post before, so I tend to get a bit paranoid when I don’t heard if people got what they bought from me.

    But yay! Dissections are awesome! 8D

    • 59 Comic Dissector
      August 20, 2010 at 5:39 pm

      Sixpack XD?! Oh my god what!
      When I was a kid I tried to get into this whole dog forum RPG’s because I loved dogs but.. I quess I just didn’t love dogs enough to stand other people who love dogs. Oh the sparkle and emo and “deep” characters. I was at the forums for one month before giving up.
      Well.. that tutorial kinda makes sense o_O I always wondered why Ginga-dogs didn’t have any shoulders so..
      And I think we just defined no life – wondering if an artist had meant to draw pecks or shoulders to his dogs haha!
      Oh, and I haven’t seen any Ginga-fanart from you so I didn’t mention you in this entry. If you’ve had a Ginga-past (oh so dark Ginga past..) I don’t really see any signs of it. Except you being finnish and drawing dogs, which is not that big of a strech.

      Yeah, I got the comic and I will not be nice to you even if you beg >8((( I know this is a plot!
      …just kidding
      I just have like.. two entries waiting to be done before WURR, I hope you won’t lose sleep over waiting how cruel I will be xD There’s really no need. Much. Maybe.

      • 60 WolfPearl
        August 20, 2010 at 7:18 pm

        You have no idea about the deepness and uniqueness of canine RPG characters… I recently tried to join a new doggie RPG forum for the good old times’ sake, and found out I had no way of actually playing normal conversations with anyone, since the whole game was filled with homicidal psycopaths with tragic pasts. (And christmas trees worth of accessories.) Actually, I don’t even remember ever playing just normal life, there was always fight and action scenes going on.

        Whaaat, do you mean that it’s not a matter of life and death whether the doggie boobs (doobs?) are titties or shoulders? And here I was, thinking it would be a revolutionary revelation. D8

        Haha, sorry to disappoint you, but I’ve never drawn Ginga art. I didn’t even see the anime untill… What was “lukio” in English again? Highschool? Anyway, my lukio classmates all talked about it, and I remembered the boys of my elementary school being huge Akakabuto fans back in the day, so I went and watched the whole series on one sit (uncut DVD versions!) and that’s actually the only time I’ve seen it. So, it doesn’t really have the nostalgy value for me, as I never saw it as a kid, and when I saw it, I had already developed some kind of own “style” of drawing. I learned from photos, with probably a bit of Disney thrown in.

        Oh yes! I’d love to see Wurr dissected and grind into pieces! I started it with practically no knowledge about how comics should be made, and I have no idea how blind I am for my own story. I have a bad habit of sinking too deep into world creation and getting carried away with it too much. I don’t know if I explain too much or too little, or if anything makes any sense. I want to know where I fail! D8 Wurr needs some poking with a scalpel. And I can wait for it. I will wait, with ninja patience.

      • 61 Comic Dissector
        August 21, 2010 at 9:49 am

        It’s crazy how it’s impossible to have a natural, feet-to-the-ground animal (feral??) RP. I thought animals would be so hard to play as super magical and emo beings, but I quess they are so hard to play that the only option for most people IS the supermagicalemodog option.
        ..and okay, okay.. it was revolutionary relevation. I was just too ashamed to admit :’|

        Good to hear you were able to escape the horrifying influence of the muscledogs.. you are a lucky one. And I can really see the influence of “real sciense” in your stuff sometimes, and that tickles my fancy, it tickles it pink man.

        Ahaha xD Great! I have some time to re-read it troughly and think about it well, at least.

      • 62 WolfPearl
        August 24, 2010 at 11:05 am

        Perhaps the reason all doggie RPGs are full of emomagicsparkle is that majority of players are around 12-15 years old. For some reason RPGs, tend to attract teenagers, and specially canine RPGs. I have seen few attempts of realistic wolf RPG, but I still haven’t seen one to live for long. When the role playing teenagers can’t get their super awesome special ginga character in them, they usually suffer from lack of players and dry up.

        I could probably analyse the phenomenon for a lot more (being part of the circles for six years and seeing it from the inside tends to do that) but that would just bore everyone.

        Daww, thank you, man. I feel all flattered now.
        I’ve been practically raised by Avara luonto and nature documentaries, they’re the thing I grew up with more than any cartoons. I have had some perioids of huge influence (Garfield was one, I can still see traces of it in my drawings sometimes. Also Lena Furberg, who draws all the best comics in Hevoshullu horse magazine. And of course there was Pokémon, but we can all see how well that stuck. http://wpgdea.deviantart.com ). But… Yeah. No booby dogs.

  15. 63 Wempu
    August 22, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Um… Don’t mind me, I’m just a long-time lurker who decided it was about time to say my thanks to you for writing this blog. I used to be a desudog-person myself, so especially entries like this really thrill me. ❤

  16. August 23, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    sdgjsfgsfllds I remember back in the day when I used to be sort of semi-friends’ with her; until I commented on one of her BAWWW MY DOGS ARENT COPIED FROM GINGA-journals saying that it might be because I’m not into dog-comics in general, but they look at least heavily influenced by Ginga. =she removed me from her watchlist and never replied to my comments again 😀

    • August 23, 2010 at 1:02 pm

      also, I visited her page and noticed some of her characters have the same names as mine… SUDDEN URGE TO RENAME EVERYTHING WHAT IS THIS

    • 67 Comic Dissector
      August 23, 2010 at 4:05 pm

      If it’s that touchy of a subject for her.. no wonder she blocked me.
      I hope she is able to surpass her influences, though. I understand if she doesn’t listen to a potty-mouth, crude humorist critic like me, but when a watcher just expresses their concern, I don’t get it.

      Haha! And don’t change the names 😀 unless they’re made-up or something, it’s pretty much impossible to give character an original name anyway. But you can really make an original character other ways so it doesn’t matter.

      • August 23, 2010 at 5:16 pm

        I’m so glad art schools made my skin thicker really fast, I do remember being like 15 and being offended at everything that wasn’t completely and utterly positive when it came to my drawings xD I don’t know, but I’m assuming Puukangas hasn’t studied art anywhere? If she has, she has some rare talent for getting angry at nothing, critique of your work=/=critique about you

        How does Krkoef sound to you? ;P

    • 69 Comic Dissector
      August 23, 2010 at 8:00 pm

      Yeah, I remember being offended, too but my offense got lamed down when I thought “I’m too old to get pissed at stuff like this!” and my want to learn surpassed the want to get offended. I still actually feel bad when I do a mistake but.. eh.. if you don’t feel bad, you won’t fix it? And I could swear she had SOME sort of training but I have no idea.

      Oww… change the name xD

  17. 70 Hipsukkapipsukkapöö
    August 23, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Even if it’s not terrible enough that people copy Ginga style… someone has even made a tutorial of it!! GAWD! DX< http://nekonotaishou.deviantart.com/art/Ginga-Tutorial-Final-version-145130967

    • 71 Comic Dissector
      August 23, 2010 at 8:04 pm

      It is actually a learning experience to try and figure out how to draw in some other style than your own, but sadly most of those who learn by this tutorial will most probably want to draw like that as their “main style”
      No one really even knows why the artist of Ginga draws the dogs like he does (and there’s allot of speculation in this tutorial about it, too) but people still don’t see why it would be bad to copy someone else’s style and stick with it. Sigh. Good luck if you take this tutorial as your bible for art style.
      Otherwise, it’s not exactly a bad tutorial.

  18. 72 Mura
    August 24, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    YOU HAD US STARVING! look at all those comments.

    This is kind of like reading TVtropes, addictive, fun and informative, you are making me into a critic, cuz as an artist i’m terrible (to say the least).

    It strikes me as odd that no one mentioned copyright infringement earlier, as fan art it’s ok, but as something that gets published and makes an income? :/

    Anyway, people actually buy this? I have somewhere in this hellhole bedroom a little mexican manga-style comic that came for free with a spiderman comic, i think. The style is… lacking at some points and… i don’t know, i don’t remember much of it anymore, but it had a couple of original stories (maybe the concepts weren’t original) and the characters were unique, but it was still lacking a bit and i wouldn’t have paid for it from looking at the art in the cover (it got a bit better in the rest of the book, iirc).

    Anyway, i think i’m rambling here… what i want to say is “Thanks for posting again” it really is a good way to spend the morning at my job, haha! Don’t kill yourself much and keep on posting! *cracks a whip*

    PD: What’s a Muura? i use mura as a nick since ages, but i bet not related to Muura o.ô

    • 73 Comic Dissector
      August 29, 2010 at 12:28 pm

      I should postpone more if it brings me this much attention 8D tee hee
      ..just kidding, I gotta take a hold of myself.

      Yeah, the copyright issue is one of those reasons why I hate copied styles – you’re taking someone else’s effort and stealing it as your own. Most big artists just don’t care about it, merely raise their eyebrows but if there’s an image to be protected, then they will be much more strict. Good example of this is Disney.

      Haha! I love mysterious, weird comics like those xD
      And yeah, the sad truth is that people will buy ANYTHING. If you’re crafty enough, you will be able to sell anything and make a living out of it. Or at least sell even if you won’t live off of it.

      Yikes! I shall post more for you to read at work @_@!

      Oh, and Muura is a rather well-known finnish DA artist. Dunno about Mura.

  19. August 28, 2010 at 11:53 am

    now I sorta wish I was able to do more than… 5 pages of…. lame comic so that it could be dissected by you :< life, it is so cruel! *sheds a tear*

    anxiously waiting for updates huhurrhurr

  20. August 28, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    First it didn’t send my comment because i didn’t fill the e-mail selection. Then next time mains split out. So,here i go. AGAIN.

    Even thought I know Elli, she’s my friends sister, lived near by (she moved to UK) and is somehow related to me, i don’t really apologise for her. But when i saw that page on this dissection (with the older man writing and something) i have to say, THAT is some PROGRESS.
    So hope she continues like that.

    Ginga did havbe an effect on kids born in 80’s so they started to draw animu-fighting-desu-dogs, which is not bad. I like Ginga A LOT, i first saw it when i was around 6 years old. It’s that old, real manga, as you can see from the style. But nowdays, youngs around 10-16 years old draw so much anime-dogs, which have taken inspiration of Weed and others… and yeah, iäm pretty much got enough of that.
    I mean, there are some really talented people, like this girl (16 years?)
    http://jeniac.deviantart.com/ , she really knows how to draw and color BUT REALLY, only manga kind of emo-dogs and some yaoi. Iäm personally trying to get rid of manga-effects on my style. (Nooooob i haven’t ever draw animu-dogs…)

    But yeah, ginga has lefted his effect on all of us.

    P.S Love your blog, glad you updated :’D

    P.P.S From Ginga, Kurojaki and Kogas have and ARE always my favorites. And Benizakura.

    • 77 Comic Dissector
      August 29, 2010 at 12:39 pm

      Oh my, it’s a small world, eh?

      It’s strange how a manga and a series made in the 80’s can still affect kids today. I quess it just.. is that good? And Weed makes it even more sure that the fad will go on.
      Yeah, I hope she’ll get over her influences soon. I can’t even tell you how many kids in DA have EXACTLY that same sparkledog-style. Disney-esque animudogs with bandanas and tails that reach the ground.. honestly, I can’t even count how many draw like that.

      But yes, thank you :3

      And.. OMG Benizakura is my all-time favourite ;_;

  21. August 28, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    oh and yes, my beautiful english…. hope you can somehow make point of it!

  22. 80 elli
    September 25, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    what’s your päivitysfrekvenssi?

  23. 84 Theosphir
    December 21, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Just to point it out, that first black and white pick of the shocked dog looking up looks suspiciously like a trace of Riki when he’s trying to save Gin in one of the first few episodes…

    • 85 Comic Dissector
      December 23, 2010 at 11:43 pm

      Yeah, but it’ll be a horrendous job to find just that scene. Dunno if she’s been tracing or just “eyeballing” but the influence is strong and still is to this day.

    • 86 Comic Dissector
      December 23, 2010 at 11:45 pm

      It would be a tough job just to find that shot, and I’m not sure if she’s been tracing rather than just “eyeballing”. The influence in this comic really showed trough and it still does to this day. But there’s hope she will break from it.


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